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	<title>Comments on: ClimateGate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com</link>
	<description>Facts, not fiction on climate change</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 06:26:26 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1631</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-1631</guid>
		<description>Yes, they&#039;re quite fond of that sort of thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they&#8217;re quite fond of that sort of thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1598</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-1598</guid>
		<description>FORTRAN  like any other programming language is only as good as the algorithm and especially the data. Models are very subjective and not objective. They all have something called initial conditions which can be tweaked to get the outcome desired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FORTRAN  like any other programming language is only as good as the algorithm and especially the data. Models are very subjective and not objective. They all have something called initial conditions which can be tweaked to get the outcome desired.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1482</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-1482</guid>
		<description>It looks like YOutube deleted Stuart Varney&#039;s interview with Sen. Inhofe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like YOutube deleted Stuart Varney&#8217;s interview with Sen. Inhofe</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Price</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1436</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-1436</guid>
		<description>I can understand poking and prodding (manipulating) the data.  These guys aren&#039;t the first scientists to be aware that their funding and reputations depend on being right.  What strikes me is that when challenged, they stopped acting like scientists and started acting like politicians.  Read the emails... Deny, parse, mislead, intimidate, discredit, lie and cover up.  It&#039;s right out of the political dirty tricks handbook.  That&#039;s not the behavior of scientists.  Mann et. al. have lost objectivity and their results can&#039;t be trusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand poking and prodding (manipulating) the data.  These guys aren&#8217;t the first scientists to be aware that their funding and reputations depend on being right.  What strikes me is that when challenged, they stopped acting like scientists and started acting like politicians.  Read the emails&#8230; Deny, parse, mislead, intimidate, discredit, lie and cover up.  It&#8217;s right out of the political dirty tricks handbook.  That&#8217;s not the behavior of scientists.  Mann et. al. have lost objectivity and their results can&#8217;t be trusted.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan McGrath</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1115</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan McGrath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-1115</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing pertinent to the situation.

The tree ring data you call &quot;highly problematic&quot; is the whole point! The paleoclimate model that&#039;s used to &quot;prove&quot; that it&#039;s warmer than ever before is based on that &quot;highly problematic&quot; tree ring data. Michael Mann&#039;s hockey stick chart is based on it, until the data didn&#039;t agree with what he was trying to say, or OBSERVABLE REALITY (actual measured temps). 

Nobody suggsested that the climate models are wrong because they are written in FORTRAN. What matters is what the FORTRAN code DOES, with subroutines called &quot;Apply a very artificial correction&quot; and the like. Inputting random strings of numbers into the program will 9 times in 10 produce a hockey-stick result.

Try again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing pertinent to the situation.</p>
<p>The tree ring data you call &#8220;highly problematic&#8221; is the whole point! The paleoclimate model that&#8217;s used to &#8220;prove&#8221; that it&#8217;s warmer than ever before is based on that &#8220;highly problematic&#8221; tree ring data. Michael Mann&#8217;s hockey stick chart is based on it, until the data didn&#8217;t agree with what he was trying to say, or OBSERVABLE REALITY (actual measured temps). </p>
<p>Nobody suggsested that the climate models are wrong because they are written in FORTRAN. What matters is what the FORTRAN code DOES, with subroutines called &#8220;Apply a very artificial correction&#8221; and the like. Inputting random strings of numbers into the program will 9 times in 10 produce a hockey-stick result.</p>
<p>Try again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Fell</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Fell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-993</guid>
		<description>These emails are quite damning prima facie, but are they in fact so?

TRICKS &quot;“I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.&quot;   In scientific and mathematical writing, a &quot;trick&quot; means a &quot;technique&quot;.  For example, in &quot;The Number System&quot;, by H.A. Thurston, you may read: &quot;The trick is to use a set of signs in fixed order.&quot;  The &quot;trick&quot; referred to here is writing 1, 2, 3, instead of [,], [..], [...].  And the &quot;real temps&quot; that Jones referred to is a set of data obtained directly from thermometers and other instruments, rather than a set of highly problematic data inferred from the width of tree rings.  This can be interpreted as manipulation only if using the best available data instead problematic data can be so called.

COMPUTER MODELS &quot;“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.”  This statement has nothing to do with computer models.  It appeared in an article the Kevin Trenberth wrote describing the need for better instrumentation. As the quote itself indicates, this statement is about the &quot;observing system&quot; -- i.e., the sets of sensors deployed in a part of the ocean.  Instrumental readings from one part of the ocean were lower than could be accounted for by the laws of science and contradicted expectations created by other sets of data.  Trenberth&#039;s response was not to fudge the figures, but to ask for better temperature recording instruments to determine whether the anomaly resulted from the instrumentation.

FORTRAN &quot;It’s coded in an old. Largely [sic] outdated programming language called FORTRAN.&quot;  Well, FORTAN (Formula Translator) may be an old programming language, but it is  nevertheless a powerful and reliable language, in which vast numbers of proven scientific applications are written.  To suggest that climate models are inaccurate because they are written in FORTRAN is ludicrous.

As for resisting FOI requests, the scientists at CRU were wrong to resist, or suggest resisting them.  Nevertheless, one of the dangers of freedom of information laws is their use by hostile parties as instruments of harassment.  That is what the CRU was facing.  Resisting the law is of course not the answer, but there is clearly a problem here that needs to be fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These emails are quite damning prima facie, but are they in fact so?</p>
<p>TRICKS &#8220;“I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.&#8221;   In scientific and mathematical writing, a &#8220;trick&#8221; means a &#8220;technique&#8221;.  For example, in &#8220;The Number System&#8221;, by H.A. Thurston, you may read: &#8220;The trick is to use a set of signs in fixed order.&#8221;  The &#8220;trick&#8221; referred to here is writing 1, 2, 3, instead of [,], [..], [...].  And the &#8220;real temps&#8221; that Jones referred to is a set of data obtained directly from thermometers and other instruments, rather than a set of highly problematic data inferred from the width of tree rings.  This can be interpreted as manipulation only if using the best available data instead problematic data can be so called.</p>
<p>COMPUTER MODELS &#8220;“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.”  This statement has nothing to do with computer models.  It appeared in an article the Kevin Trenberth wrote describing the need for better instrumentation. As the quote itself indicates, this statement is about the &#8220;observing system&#8221; &#8212; i.e., the sets of sensors deployed in a part of the ocean.  Instrumental readings from one part of the ocean were lower than could be accounted for by the laws of science and contradicted expectations created by other sets of data.  Trenberth&#8217;s response was not to fudge the figures, but to ask for better temperature recording instruments to determine whether the anomaly resulted from the instrumentation.</p>
<p>FORTRAN &#8220;It’s coded in an old. Largely [sic] outdated programming language called FORTRAN.&#8221;  Well, FORTAN (Formula Translator) may be an old programming language, but it is  nevertheless a powerful and reliable language, in which vast numbers of proven scientific applications are written.  To suggest that climate models are inaccurate because they are written in FORTRAN is ludicrous.</p>
<p>As for resisting FOI requests, the scientists at CRU were wrong to resist, or suggest resisting them.  Nevertheless, one of the dangers of freedom of information laws is their use by hostile parties as instruments of harassment.  That is what the CRU was facing.  Resisting the law is of course not the answer, but there is clearly a problem here that needs to be fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Mosher</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-632</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Mosher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-632</guid>
		<description>Our Book has gone on sale and is doing quite nicely!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1450512437/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&amp;me=&amp;seller=

The details of how the mails came to light is covered here 

http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/the-mosher-timeline/

drop me a line at moshersteven--at--gmail</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our Book has gone on sale and is doing quite nicely!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1450512437/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&amp;me=&amp;seller=" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1450512437/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&amp;me=&amp;seller=</a></p>
<p>The details of how the mails came to light is covered here </p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/the-mosher-timeline/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/the-mosher-timeline/</a></p>
<p>drop me a line at moshersteven&#8211;at&#8211;gmail</p>
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		<title>By: Chavah Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-547</link>
		<dc:creator>Chavah Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-547</guid>
		<description>Response to Reason McLucas:  &quot;Social science&quot; is not really a science. And it has had a detrimental effect on society.  One needs only to look at the origins of &quot;social science&quot; and some of the founders of these so-called disciplines.  Alas, our high schools and universities are filled with  &quot;social science&quot; students who in a normal world would do something constructive with their time.  There are too many professional psychologists with their demands for encouraging self-esteem based on nothingness.  There are too many sociologists which feed into the unhealthy victim industry.  There are too many people writing useless thesis, dissertations, and books based on fancy theories.  These theories are often elaborately worded and are of two sorts:  those of garden variety common sense dressed in fashionable words, and those which cause mischief.  In the latter category is the victim industry (he/she is too young, old, poor, uneducated, too complex, too important, or whatever to be held responsible for whatever.

I had an English Literature professor who said that a sociologist is one who &quot;spends thousands of dollars and several years, doing extensive research to prove that children get upset when you scream at them.&quot;  Nuff said.

Incidently I agree totally with your point on &quot;averages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to Reason McLucas:  &#8220;Social science&#8221; is not really a science. And it has had a detrimental effect on society.  One needs only to look at the origins of &#8220;social science&#8221; and some of the founders of these so-called disciplines.  Alas, our high schools and universities are filled with  &#8220;social science&#8221; students who in a normal world would do something constructive with their time.  There are too many professional psychologists with their demands for encouraging self-esteem based on nothingness.  There are too many sociologists which feed into the unhealthy victim industry.  There are too many people writing useless thesis, dissertations, and books based on fancy theories.  These theories are often elaborately worded and are of two sorts:  those of garden variety common sense dressed in fashionable words, and those which cause mischief.  In the latter category is the victim industry (he/she is too young, old, poor, uneducated, too complex, too important, or whatever to be held responsible for whatever.</p>
<p>I had an English Literature professor who said that a sociologist is one who &#8220;spends thousands of dollars and several years, doing extensive research to prove that children get upset when you scream at them.&#8221;  Nuff said.</p>
<p>Incidently I agree totally with your point on &#8220;averages.</p>
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		<title>By: Reason McLucus</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Reason McLucus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-450</guid>
		<description>One fact overlooked in the Climatgate scandal is that the data they are manipulating are what we mathematicians refer to as &quot;garbage&quot; anyway.  [Note: Harry Truman would have used a different word.]  Mathematicians Bjarne Andresen, a professor at The Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen, Professor Christopher Essex from University of Western Ontario and Professor Ross McKitrick from University of Guelph, Canada  argue that the whole idea of a global average temperature is invalid.   http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070315101129.htm    
The complete article is available at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/globaltemp/GlobTemp.JNET.pdf

In real sciences, including the social sciences, averages went out with slide rules.  The primitives who talk about global average temperatures start about by averaging the low and high temperatures for each reporting site.  Taking only the high and low numbers in an irregularly distributed set of numbers produces a number which does not represent the set as a whole.   

Such an average can represent various  different conditions.   For example,  an average temperature of 75 F could represent the following sets of high and low temperatures (100,50 - which can occur in deserts)  (90,60) and (65, 85) which represent different climate conditions.  A lower average temperature  could produce more melting of ice if the temperature remains above freezing under the lower average temperature and the higher average represents a situation in which the temperature  was above freezing for only 5 or 6 hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One fact overlooked in the Climatgate scandal is that the data they are manipulating are what we mathematicians refer to as &#8220;garbage&#8221; anyway.  [Note: Harry Truman would have used a different word.]  Mathematicians Bjarne Andresen, a professor at The Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen, Professor Christopher Essex from University of Western Ontario and Professor Ross McKitrick from University of Guelph, Canada  argue that the whole idea of a global average temperature is invalid.   <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070315101129.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070315101129.htm</a><br />
The complete article is available at <a href="http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/globaltemp/GlobTemp.JNET.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/globaltemp/GlobTemp.JNET.pdf</a></p>
<p>In real sciences, including the social sciences, averages went out with slide rules.  The primitives who talk about global average temperatures start about by averaging the low and high temperatures for each reporting site.  Taking only the high and low numbers in an irregularly distributed set of numbers produces a number which does not represent the set as a whole.   </p>
<p>Such an average can represent various  different conditions.   For example,  an average temperature of 75 F could represent the following sets of high and low temperatures (100,50 &#8211; which can occur in deserts)  (90,60) and (65, 85) which represent different climate conditions.  A lower average temperature  could produce more melting of ice if the temperature remains above freezing under the lower average temperature and the higher average represents a situation in which the temperature  was above freezing for only 5 or 6 hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.NoCapAndTrade.com/?page_id=280#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Here is yet another example of the ignorant left; listening only to the propaganda.  It&#039;s unfortunate that these types of arguments by the liberals can not be supported by factual evidence of any kind.  If the liberals were more informed on the issues, and if they would research what science proves, we would not be having this conversation.  Oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is yet another example of the ignorant left; listening only to the propaganda.  It&#8217;s unfortunate that these types of arguments by the liberals can not be supported by factual evidence of any kind.  If the liberals were more informed on the issues, and if they would research what science proves, we would not be having this conversation.  Oh well.</p>
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